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Cyclone dust seperation

Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby servant74 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 7:23 pm

On dust separation, just about anything is better than nothing. I like the Thein baffle separator ( http://www.cgallery.com/jpthien/cy.htm and http://www.cgallery.com/smf/ ) for a quick and dirty solution. If you want to go for an 'ultimate' solution look at the

http://www.billpentz.com/woodworking/cyclone/index.cfm

web site and read..read..read ... He is all about your health in the shop. He has a design spreadsheet to help you design a great dust collection system that does collect the 'heavy' stuff but focuses on the fine dust that hurts your lungs (Bill has problems breathing from years of shop dust, so this is now his mission in life to help others not have the same fate). Bill has licensed the dust collection to

http://www.clearvuecyclones.com/

They are not cheap, but good. Then you need to either exhaust the air from the shop or put it through filters. Wein http://www.wynnenv.com/cartridge_filters.htm (also sold through Clear Vue Cyclones) seem to be premium. Whatever you get, get the filters that are HEPA rated or better. Bill suggests 0.3 micron filters. Putting on extra filters means they will take a lot longer to clog.

Yes, I do research lots of 'stuff', and this happens to be part of it...

I have NOT found any empirical data on the best store bought cyclones, but unless you go into a LOT of money, they don't seem to exist, and the Pentz design, and therefore Clear Vue, seems to be one of the least expensive REALLY GOOD designs.

If you are at all concerned about the air in your shop, read Bill's site from stem to stern, then decide for yourself.

...

Now for the 'do as I say' section... I don't have a cyclone 'yet'. It will come soon after a 'book machine' is finished (under way now). Oh, most cutting of MDF is not done in my shop, it is either outside or in a nearby 'wood shop' owned by my wifes employer.

To vacuum around my shop, I got a HEPA filter for my shopvac. It really helps but has to be 'cleaned' pretty often, but there is a lot less fine dust in the air. But this isn't enough for everything, and yes, as I get a new shop area done, I want to build a Pentz cyclone. But a Thein may be in store to begin with, then put the 'effluent' through a HEPA filter.

Oh, on the Pentz site he does talk about 'conversions' of dust collectors, and power needed, etc. Basically to improve things, use a good filter, not a 'filter bag' (many bags are 5 micron, the 'better' bags are 3micron. You still need 0.3 micron for your health.) The power needed needs to be enough to suck in all the fine particle air for about a foot or two (I forget the exact number, depends on the 'tool') around the air inlet, and it needs to move fast enough to keep everything suspended in air. Bill's formulas and tables will help figure out what you need.

Overall, IMHO, do the best you can do as soon as possible, and upgrade whenever you can (but don't wait very long) seems to be the best reasonable advice I can find.

I hope this helps someone.

... Jack
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby bajaru » Tue Jun 07, 2011 8:28 pm

Jack - I agree with you 100% on getting *some*thing sooner rather than later, even if it's not ideal. I read Bill Pentz's website and it put the fear of hell into me so much that I stopped all my projects immediately until after I built my Thien unit. I still have a couple tweaks in mind for it and then my plan is to either vent the shop vac outside or make a large HEPA filter box the shop vac will exhaust into. Either way, with my current setup, I'll be changing or cleaning the shop vac filters waaaaaay less often than before, so that alone has almost made the effort worth while.

Pics of my Thien dust separator are posted earlier in this thread and now that it's done, it looks pretty much the same but with the addition of a 2.25" vac port on the side and all the joints are sealed. If anyone is interested, I'd be happy to post my CamBam and/or DXF files.

-Brian
Last edited by bajaru on Wed Jun 08, 2011 12:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby servant74 » Tue Jun 07, 2011 9:48 pm

Great! ... I am glad that there are others on the same page as I am. ... Yep, something is MUCH better than nothing.

FWIW, I asked Bill what he thinks about the Thein, and he seems to think about the same. It is a good stopgap for what it does but it doesn't get the smaller particles. For your health (and everyone that comes in the shop), you NEED the HEPA level filtration for the 'small stuff'.
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby John » Wed Jun 08, 2011 1:52 am

My stopgap measure in lieu of being able to afford a large cyclonic separator was to move my dust extractor outside and to buy powered 0.4micron dust masks (http://www.carbatec.com.au/economy-powered-dust-mask_c14162).

These have the added advantage that they don't fog up your glasses like regular masks!

It sounds like most people here are using home vacuum style shop vacs with 2" hose. Having just moved to a 4" I'll admit the 2" hose is much easier to move around, but the 4" seems to suck up a lot more dust.

John
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby lonetreecreations » Fri Jul 22, 2011 2:18 am

Just an update on my Thien baffle dust and chip collection system. I have been using my system for the past few months along with a brushed shoe I fabricated from Harbor Freight paint brushes. I am estimating that my system picks up about 97% or 98% of all dust and chips while the table is running. No kidding, I would be the first to tell you if it didn't work that well. I literally don't have to clean up ANY dust or chips, ever. I love this thing. My shop used to be covered with a thick layer of sawdust and I was breathing it in and had the colored boogers to prove it. I purchased a used Harbor freight dust collector and built the compact version that work amazingly well. Any of you are free to come by and check it out if you don't believe me. I can't believe how well it works myself. I am so glad I took the time to make it. Mine exhausts outside through the garage wall and there is never any dust or chips outside either. They are all collected in the can just like they are supposed to.
The system I built is almost exactly like this one.

http://www.instructables.com/id/Making- ... t-collect/

Here's a picture of mine:

Image

It's a great, rather inexpensive way to keep you shop clean.
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby John » Fri Jul 22, 2011 4:59 am

ahhh, 4" hose. Do you take the 4" all the way to your dust shoe? or shrink it down to 2"?

I'd love to do something like this with my dust extractor, but my motor and exhaust bag section are all made of a single piece of molded plastic. Makes it a bit tricky.

Venting outside sure helps. I just shove the whole unit out the door at the moment.

John
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby lonetreecreations » Fri Jul 22, 2011 11:02 am

It's 4" all the way to the shoe. You need it for volume. I've seen people try to
use 2" and 3" hose at the shoe also. It picks up fine dust but can't move
the chips out. I would have done 5" off of it but it would have been a
little too bulky. It works perfectly now so I'm not going to mess with it at all.
It's very quiet too "compared to a shop vac that sounds like a jet engine.
Also, shop vacs are not designed to run all the time, dust collectors are.
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby kevinl » Mon Oct 24, 2011 1:51 pm

how does this last post help in the farther knowledge of cyclone dust separation, looks like an ad to me...

you can delete this post with the last post, thanks..

thanks for deleting the vehicle exhaust system advertisement post which this post refer too..
Last edited by kevinl on Tue Oct 25, 2011 1:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby keith » Mon Oct 24, 2011 7:28 pm

It looks like an ad to me too!
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Re: Cyclone dust seperation

Postby keith » Mon Feb 08, 2016 1:03 pm

I fell in love with the Twin Oneida Dust Deputy setup and decided that I would have something like it myself...

So I hunted and hunted and did some 'dumpster diving' until I got everything I needed. Then I assembled it and guess what??? Not only does it work perfectly :D , the Orange cones are too weak to withstand the vacuum and so their sides collapse inward :( and yet it STILL gets the dust!!!! :lol:

The Street cones, the blue drums, the steel pipe and the very large vacuum cleaner ALL came out of a 'dumpster' I had to buy some plastic hose, some threaded rods and some nuts and washers. EVERYTHING else either came from a 'dumpster' as I said or were left over from old projects.

Twin Cyclonic Dust seperator system.jpg


The very large vacuum machine on the right has 3 motors in the head and it has SOOO much suction. But even on 1 motor the cones are colapsing...

Now all I have to do is figure out how to stop the sides of the cones collapsing.....

I have spoken to a couple of friends and there are 2 suggestions...

An Exo-Skeleton and an internal Skeleton.....

I can make a set of Exo-skelton rings but I think the internal option is easier and perhaps better. I am currently looking for a Topiary Cone to drop inside the Road Cone...

Please feel free to comment... :)
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